From early next year, parental leave is increasing to 20 weeks. This has sparked calls for companies to encourage parental leave ‘equity’ to get rid of the stigma around men taking leave. But how do men feel about this? And what’s it like taking parental leave? DMARGE spoke to a bunch of Australian guys who’ve done it, to learn about the pressures, pitfalls and perks of taking parental leave.
In light of the news that parental leave is being bumped up to 20 weeks in early 2023, Studio 10 yesterday had a fiery discussion about why many men don’t feel like they are able to take all of it.
Host Tristan Macmanus said that when he had his kid, he didn’t feel comfortable taking 20 weeks off due to the nature of the industry he worked in.
“Obviously I don’t feel like I can take 20 weeks off in a year,” he said. When asked: “Why not?” he said “Well, that’s TV, or that’s radio, or that’s whatever industry that you’re in.”
“It’s one thing saying: ‘We’re happy to do this’ and ‘you know what, we’re progressive and we want to help everyone’… It’s very well to say that but it just depends on what’s the actuality of what’s happening or not. It looks better for a company to write down: ‘We’ll give you everything that you need,’ but it’s another thing to be actually living that.”
“If it were up to me, both parents would get 20 weeks off. But it’s not the reality of it.”
Tristan Macmanus
“We can’t just say it’s women who want this to happen. Everyone does, but there is a reality in the society that we live in that it’s not [always] possible.”
When another panel member put it to him that this is what the latest change is all about, he clarified: “I’m fully onboard with it, I’m just saying if this is the chance we have then… it has to be actions not just words and I feel as though it’s still words.”
I was fortunate enough with both my kids that I was able to take parental leave and absolutely loved it. And no, it didn’t impact my career negatively, quite the opposite.
— Geoff Quattromani (@GQuattromani) October 12, 2022
Speaking of putting your money where your mouth is, DMARGE spoke to
Geoff Quattromani, who works for a large healthcare company, and who told DMARGE that taking parental leave was actually beneficial for his career.“I have a day job, then I do all this tech stuff on the side,” Mr Quattromani explained. “In my day job, they offered me 8 weeks of parental leave when I had my first kid. I think it was 12 [weeks] by the time I had my second. Honestly, it’s the best thing ever – someone telling you that you don’t have to use your annual leave and you can freely take that time when you want to, in whatever increments that you want to as well.”
Mr Quattromani said he understands why the stigma exists (“For the guy, it’s not like the mother who just literally had a baby”), but he is reckons it’s beyond time we get over it – for the good of both men and women alike.
Mr Quattromani told us he used his first month off to help out after the birth to help his wife feed and care for his kid and his second month off towards the six month mark: “Where the baby was a bit more playful, a bit more enjoyable instead of you just worrying about keeping it alive.”
Mr Quattromani told us: “I broke mine up into two sections because after that first month we felt like we got the hang of what we were doing. Once we got in a rhythm I didn’t feel bad going back to work.”
He also said that taking a month doesn’t have to be that big of a deal (while recognising that he was in a fortunate situation): “The reality was I wasn’t going to be replaced. During that month there were measures in place to ensure my work could continue, or if it was not important it could be on pause for that month. It actually was a positive thing in a lot of ways.”
“It actually worked out better for me because while I was away, yes things continued to hum along, but when I did return it was an example for other males in the organisation to do the same.”
“That exposure, especially when you work in a very large company and you start getting in front of town halls to say ‘this is what I did,’ it actually was a good thing in terms of my career and what it allowed me to do from an exposure point of view – it’s massive.”
“I think anyone should be doing it. Why wouldn’t you?”
Geoff Quattromani
“I don’t want to sound arrogant in a way but I think if someone is sitting at their desk worried that if they take four weeks off it’s going to impact their career, then maybe they’re not very good.”
“If you’re so nervous that you think if you’re away from your email and everything else for four weeks that they’re going to realise we don’t need this person anymore, then maybe that’s already the reality and you just hiding behind that.”
“Women take sometimes a year off and they still come back to their job, they still keep working.” Mr Quattromani said. He also said we need more guys doing this, and indeed they are: “By the time I had my second, my first is now four, the second time it was [considered] a lot more normal.”
“It’s not uncommon for someone to take time off to be there for their baby. It sounds so weird now to think back when I was born: I think my dad was there but was he there the next day? I have no idea. That was the reality, sometimes they just got a message while they were at work saying congrats you’ve had a boy…”
“Now it’s much more normal. I wish I could have taken more.”
“I haven’t been there for everything. I remember I was at an event, and I got a video from my wife of my son taking his first steps. I wasn’t there and it was because I chose to go to a product launch and have a glass of wine and I was like, ‘Oh bugger.'”
“You go out for a couple of drinks and suddenly your son starts walking. The chance to be there for those sorts of opportunities, if your workplace offers it, I think you should take it.”
Geoff Quattromani
“The more the better. The increase is great [because it gives you options]. You might want to do it together and learn how to parent together and that’s great. Also, if the lady wants to go back to work soon or sooner because maybe her job is more important than your job, you should be able to step up [at parenting]. The gender part shouldn’t matter anymore, it should just be the same.”
“What if two men adopt a kid? Should they not get time for bonding? Of course, they should.”
As for his best advice, for any men about to take parental leave, Mr Quattromani said: “Planning ahead was the biggest thing.” Just think of it like a (sleepless) trip to Europe…
“You’ve got a 9-month window for when you need to plan for that, so start that conversation early – say look the baby is due in such and such month; I’m thinking about taking some of my parental leave. That’s usually a better tactic than taking all of it at once if your job is very critical.”
“You might say I’ll take four weeks here and then four weeks later on. Sit down and say, ‘Look I want to do this. I think it can work.’ Look at what you’re working on and work to end projects before or know who can carry them on to finish them while you’re on leave.”
“If you’re not having that conversation to plan it out you are being a bit negligent. You can’t leave it until the last minute”
Geoff Quattromani
Mr Quattromani also said there were a few things he did that helped ease the stress on both himself and his employer during the process of taking parental leave. The first was making his OOO pretty clear “to avoid email stress when you get back.” Specifically, Mr Quattromani recommends saying: “If it’s important please follow up” rather than leaving the onus on yourself to go through everything on your return. He also said that for him, “Checking in a couple of times” during his leave to have a light chat with his employer about how things are going on, was useful.
“I’m all for leave equity so long as there are no conditions around it – some companies say [men can take parental leave] only if the mother is going back to work – as if the company should care whether your partner is home or not!? But I have heard of that being a thing in some companies.”
“There are no second chances. You can watch your kid grow up through your phone or you can be there for them.”
Geoff Quattromani
Another Aussie bloke, Steven, who took six months of parental leave “during a pretty long lockdown in Victoria” told DMARGE that – though it was rough, due to the lockdown – it was a positive experience for him. He said: “I’m in the public service. [Taking parental leave] was definitely a positive move.”
“I found that my workplace was very supportive of me taking the leave, but definitely had a couple of conversations that were like: ‘We’re going to give it this job to someone else, given the other stuff you’ve got going on.’ For other blokes I’d say, be prepared for it to be a bit lonely, because a lot of the advice out there for stay-at-home parents is mum-focussed. You feel a bit invisible.”
“I think the fact that it has traditionally been viewed as a thing that is only available to mothers, rather than both parents, actually puts women at a disadvantage in the workplace as employers will always see maternal leave as a liability or risk that they have to take on when employing women, but not men. But if both mums and dads have equal parental leave entitlements, then that ‘risk’ is applied to both genders, and so it puts men and women on a more equal footing.”
DMARGE also spoke to Sach, a Melbourne man who is taking paternity leave this month. He told us: “I’m not entirely happy with my leave as it’s only for one week paid, my client company is giving 3 months paid leave.”
“I feel paternity leave should be minimum one month paid to help out my partner.”
Sach
Paul, another Aussie bloke, told DMARGE that he has had four kids, and the experience was different each time.
“My experience with the first couple was stressful as I was a new dad and had no idea how to navigate a new baby and my partner’s undiagnosed PND, work pushed me to only have a week or so which made things terribly difficult for the mother and myself.”
“It’s one thing in hindsight I should have pushed back on, and taken more time away from work.”
Paul
“For the last two I had about 3 weeks off for each of them, and that particular partner did a lot better with the kids, as did I. Work (different job, corporate) was understanding and happy to give me the time off, but I essentially had to be available to reach via phone to keep the cogs turning – which I didn’t mind all that much as I was rarely called.”
“A fuckload to catch up on when I returned though. Emails through the wazoo.”
Paul
Finally, DMARGE spoke to Aussie bloke Tyson, who told us: “It was incredible! You never get that time again with your kids and it’s rare for men to get it at all. Really helped build a great bond with my kids which we still have today and have only built on. Can’t recommend it enough.”
Tyson said he had “the usual concerns before” such as “time out of work hurting career progression, missing opportunities, etc.” but that ultimately they “didn’t hold me back at all.”
“If anything,” Tyson claimed, “[Taking paternity leave] gave me better perspective and has probably helped my career in a round about way. I now run a team of 50, deliver billion-dollar projects and just turned 40 six months ago.”
There you have it – an insight into what it’s like to take parental leave as an Aussie bloke. Good luck, and happy papoose prepping…
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